While you can plan everything out, the best things in life tend to come unexpectedly. For Charlie Lim, Linying, and Katz, that certainly proved true with their latest collaborative single 'Definitely'.
The track was born out of an impromptu jam session between long-time friends and collaborators Charlie and Katz, who after recording a little acoustic performance of their 2021 single 'Forgetting' decided to keep the camera rolling and improvise some chords. Linying later saw that video, decided to write some lyrics and before they knew it, the three of them had 'Definitely'.
"I'm really proud of it and how it came about. We didn't really think much of a release plan or marketing plan or whatever. We just wanted to put out music and it's been a while since any of us just put out something so spontaneously without having to worry about what you need to do to put out a song," Charlie tells Bandwagon.
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We sat down with Charlie, Linying, and Katz to talk about what it's like bringing people into your creative space, finding comfort in music, and the magical way 'Definitely' came to be.
‘Definitely’ came about so naturally and spontaneously, what was it like working on it together? For Charlie and Linying, Charlie and Katz, what's it like reuniting? For Katz and Linying, this was your first time collaborating, what’s that been like?
Linying: I always feel this like kinship with anyone who plays the piano, because it's like you can tell when your sensibilities are aligned. I don't know, it’s like you’ve got to be a soft soul so it's really fun. It felt very instinctive, very spontaneous. It was a joy.
Katz: These two divas (laughs).
Charlie: What did you say?
Linying: I don’t know if you said demons or divas.
Charlie: I thought you said deviants?
Katz: I said divas (laughs). No, it was a really nice combination of experiences. Charlie and I have been working together and have been friends since we started at uni together in 2008. We go back quite a bit. But then, working with Linying was completely effortless considering it was someone I'd never gotten to work with before. It doesn't always go that way; I think having Charlie as sort of the bridge between me and Lin, as someone who's worked with both of us quite a bit, was really nice. It all just came together very naturally.
Charlie: It was really fun. Everything was very spontaneous, but it was also like, I think everyone takes so much pride in what we do. We're all kind of like perfectionists, but at the same time trying to chase this perfect moment that was spontaneous, and trying to capture that thing. There was a delicate balance, which I hope we managed to achieve with this track.
Linying: I almost feel like all of us have done this for long enough that it's like, we've all been fatigued by just the logistics of putting music out. I think that's why it feels so liberating to be part of something that's instinctive, something that just shows up on Instagram when you're just scrolling through. If it hits you, it hits you. If it makes you write something, if it makes you feel something, you do just that. I don’t know, there's so much beauty and it's just such a magnetic thing, right? When you don't have to cloud music with all these decisions and strategic considerations, it's a great thing.
Charlie: To have a great idea and when inspiration hits that you get so inspired to do something, but finishing is the hardest part for artists. But this whole thing just felt so effortless. We could zoom out and kind of see where this is going very quickly, so we could just kind of execute that and get from point A to B in the shortest amount of time possible. And just do it all ourselves without having to worry too much about anything else but the music itself.
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There’s a lot of depth to the track, with the layered vocals and harmonies. Walk me through these interesting creative decisions you made for ‘Definitely’ and how you feel it adds to the story of the song.
Katz: Charlie was in Melbourne and I think I think it started because we were trying to actually make a reel of our song called 'Forgetting'. We realised we've done zero marketing for that, even though it's like over a year old. We decided to record an acoustic version of that and put it on Instagram, which we did. Then, I think we just kind of left the camera rolling and we were just having sort of an impromptu improvised jam, going back to our unique improvisational training days.
We finally sort of landed on this one progression which is quite cyclical, it's repetitive and only a four-chord progression but with sort of minor variations each time to keep it fresh, and it sort of just folds in on itself. We didn't know at that point that it was going to turn into anything further. I think it happened, in hindsight, to form a good canvas. A nice sort of simple but interesting enough canvas for someone to write lyrics on, a top-line melody which Lin obviously did to an incredible degree. It was just fortuitous that our progression lent itself to that.
Charlie: Katz doesn't get enough credit for his voice leading and for his chords. You know, people say that 'Oh, yeah, it's just a four-chord pop song' but it's deceptively simple. I think it takes a lot of experience and sensitivity to come up with something like this. So if you want a MIDI, you should just go DM him (laughs).
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What do you hope listeners take away from it?
Linying: I just hope it finds the right people, you know? When I think back to the songs that I love the most, it's just a song that found me at the right moment, at the right time and meant something to me. Yeah, no desire for it to reach anybody who doesn't want to be reached.
But I do think it's a pretty universal message and hopefully, someone's feeling the exact same way. If there's one thing I learned, it's that we are really not that unique and our feelings are really not that not so specific that they can't be understood by most people. I think this is a relatable one. I just hope the people who hear this and feel something from it, find comfort in it. Just the way we as musicians have found comfort in all the songs we love.
All of you have had your fair share of collaborations. What is most important to you when working with another artist? What is it like bringing someone else into your creative space for the first time?
Charlie: To be able to disagree without having the fear of offending anybody and being honest with your collaborator, who is I suppose—like me, I don't think I could work with someone that I can't consider a good friend. If I can't break bread with this person, I will find it very difficult to work with them. I know some artists can just write with random people and write a hit song in only one hour. I don't think I can ever do that so I'm very lucky to call Lin and Katz my pretty old friends by now. We have two tracks each actually, so this is my third and it's with both of them collectively. It's always been a huge pleasure and privilege to work with them.
Linying:, I write with a lot of random people but I also think that it's not hard to break bread with most people. Unless someone's extremely offensive, which rarely ever happens, but oftentimes, I feel like when you go in with the intention of making music, there tends to be that camaraderie typically. But then of course, it's so much more amplified when you work with friends because there's this ease and there's no need to break down too many barriers and walk on eggshells. It's easy to just be like, 'No, I think we're doing too much'—which is actually something Charlie said to me. I was like adding a bunch of stuff and he was like, 'No, this is too much', and I was like, 'Yeah, it is, you're right'. It's nice to be able to communicate with one another with such ease.
Charlie: She tried to add a 16-bar rap (laughs).
Katz: It's similar for me. Most of my collaborations have been with people I've known or been friends with first or in this case with Lin, someone I've known through someone else, someone to vouch for her too.
Linying: So, you know you're not being catfished.
Katz: Yeah. I've heard her stuff and I'm lucky to be working with her. But I think it helps, like what Charlie was saying, to have the honesty and the trust that you can only have with someone you've known and worked with for a while. Particularly for me, like I'm not a vocalist at all, so I put a lot of trust in the vocals I work with because I definitely know my own limitations when it comes to top lines. So yeah, it's always worked out so far with friends.
Do you ever experience fear or worry when you introduce someone to your creative space for the first time? Even if it is a friend?
Linying: I hope that, with anyone, for it to not work out would not be a big deal. You'd hope that your friends will be able to take a bad day or musical incompatibility for what it is without needing to make everybody uncomfortable about it. I think that's something that we probably all can relate to.
Listen to 'Definitely' here.
harlie
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