I still have vivid memories of my first encounter with Hikaru Utada and their music.

It was 2002 and (most probably) a school night. Some finer details are hazy, but I remember being 11 and staying up past bedtime for no particular reason. Our Y2K relic of a Trinitron was switched on to MTV, and its dizzying, flickering rush of images and songs lit up those dark hours past midnight. The ‘Can You Keep a Secret?’ music video came on shortly after an awards show, and its odd, surrealistic picture of a romance between robots hypnotised me as much as its punchy R&B stylings.

Now vastly different versions of ourselves more than two decades later, we finally meet across time zones – they in London, and I in Manila.

The Japanese-American singer-songwriter is celebrating a monumental 25 years since their 1998 major debut with Automatic/time will tell through a 25-track (plus a bonus edit of the BADモード epic ‘Somewhere Near Marseilles’) greatest hits album they have named SCIENCE FICTION. They are also embarking on an eponymous Japan tour, the first in a while since the pre-pandemic era Laughter in the Dark.

While the influential pop icon admits being initially apprehensive about a greatest hits sort of project – primarily because they had never felt the need for it, they also hint at a certain urgency. They tell me over video call from their London home ahead of the album’s release: “If I don't do anything now, I never will.”

“Timing-wise, it also felt like the format of a best hits album itself probably won't exist in the near future, so I felt like maybe this is a really nice time to do one,” they added.

SCIENCE FICTION is no regular compilation or retrospective “playlist.” Utada makes this clear. Apart from the brand-new song ‘Electricity’, the selection spans most of their boundary-pushing, genre-defying catalogue (excluding their equally adventurous English-language opuses under the mononym Utada: Exodus and This Is the One), but several of these beloved tunes get re-recorded versions and “2024 mixes”.  Doing these, they say, has given them “a chance to really look back" all the way back to the beginning.

More than a collection of documents about their past selves, SCIENCE FICTION is an odyssey through spacetime, fully opening gates where “immediately, a part of you from that time pops up.” But also, this journey has allowed them to retrieve fragments of the past and look at them with clearer lenses.

“In going back to these songs, I felt like an archaeologist, digging up these artifacts and trying to connect and look at the evidence that's been left, and meet – like, find me – during that time,” Utada says.

Going in depth discussing all things SCIENCE FICTION and the last 25 years as an artist, Utada shows such disarming candour and gravitas as we talk about their life’s work. At certain junctures, they even touch on navigating fame at a young age, the loss of their mother (the revered Enka singer Keiko Fuji 藤圭子), becoming a mother themself, and going public as a nonbinary person – among others – and reflect on how these have shaped their outlook and sense of self as an artist.

“I’m proud of the fact that I have been very honest throughout all these years,” they say at one point of the full interview, as follows. “I think that’s what’s the most important for me as a writer or singer, as an artist: that I am not hiding anything from myself.”

Hikaru Utada goes in depth discussing all things ‘SCIENCE FICTION’ and the last 25 years as an artist https://t.co/AT2Vtb8bpC #HikaruUtada #HikaruUtada25 pic.twitter.com/8K7cuJzC8W

— Bandwagon (@BandwagonAsia) April 15, 2024

A quarter of a century since your debut is a huge, huge milestone. Congratulations are in order, but also just gratitude for sharing your music all these years. How has it been gearing up for your anniversary celebrations?

Busy, I guess... I'm not 100% sure it has all sunk in yet. I'm not great at taking things in as they're happening – things like this – because there's so much to take in. I guess that's why I write songs about stuff later on, so it might take a little time. I'm wondering how I will feel when I look back on this in a bit.

How did SCIENCE FICTION as a greatest hits album come about? Why name it SCIENCE FICTION in the first place? What do you think makes these songs “science fiction?”

I hadn't put out a proper best hits type of album before because I didn't feel the need to, and I didn't really understand what they were for. But then I was just talking with some close friends, and they were saying, “Wow, aren't you doing anything to mark this anniversary?” And for the first time, I felt like, yeah, that might be a really nice thing to do. And if I don't do anything now, I never will. I'm not going to do anything for my 30th or [anything like that]. Timing-wise, it also felt like the format of a best hits album itself probably won't exist in the near future, so I felt like maybe this is a really nice time to do one.

I was thinking about a title after I decided to release this “best of” album, and a few things came together. But when the idea of science fiction popped into my head, I thought, that's it, that's the one. I mean, it is my favourite genre of film or even novels, like when I first began reading and got into like all the library books at school. They were like The Lord of the Rings series and C.S. Lewis’s [The Chronicles of Narnia] The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe – books like that. And I guess, even like Edgar Allan Poe, I suppose he's sort of science fiction, too. (Same birthday, by the way. I’m very proud that I share the same birthday with Edgar Allan Poe.) With films, I never really was into like romance type films. I couldn't. I felt too embarrassed, and they were cringey to watch for me. In fact, honestly, if I'm like on Apple TV or something and I'm looking for a film to watch, I would just go to the genre of science fiction first.

The reason science fiction popped into my head was because I was thinking a lot about how throughout my whole career, people have asked me things like, “Who is this song about? The details in your songs – how much of it is real?” It was always a very difficult question for me to answer, and I guess a lot of singer-songwriters are faced with the same questions. But simply put, it’s not complete nonfiction. It's not like a diary or a newspaper article, like you're chronicling events that happened. But it's also not pure fiction. I mean, the details could be totally fictional, but then the feelings that I experienced are what I'm trying to convey – and those are real. So, it's somewhere in between, I guess. And then, science fiction felt like, if it's a genre of film, why can't it be a genre of music?

There have also been different periods of my works, where I was doing all the programming, and people have said there's a futuristic sound to it. So, I thought, maybe from now on, I'll just say if someone asks me, “What kind of music do you do?”, I'll just say, “Ah, you know, science fiction.”

And the ring of a tour called a SCIENCE FICTION Tour sounded really cool, so I decided to go with that.

The SCIENCE FICTION Tour 2024 is your first in a while since Laughter in the Dark, when you were celebrating 20 years. While you had the AIR Studios session around the time of BADモード, and Coachella, too – how does it all feel that you’re going back on a live stage that’s all your own?

Well, I guess we'll see. The thing about doing these live shows is you just have to see what happens. There's planning that can be done, and then some parts just can't be planned. It just kind of unravels on the stage.

Every tour I’ve done, with the first show, I get really nervous. But then it just wears off. Just that dive in the beginning… It's a dive, but you have to take it. So, I am looking forward to it and I hope it's a great experience for everyone that comes to see me.

When diving into your own catalogue – whether through albums like this or concerts – do you ever get the urge of wanting to redo things? Because here in SCIENCE FICTION, there are several re-recordings and 2024 mixes. What made you want to revisit these songs in particular?

They were hard. They were really difficult. I'd never done anything like re-recording my past songs, and I've never felt the urge to. I've never wanted to. I guess that's why it was really difficult to attempt to do these re-recordings. Honestly, there wasn't anything I wanted to change about them. I wouldn't change any of my past songs.

I've always felt sure… [Maybe] “sure” is not the right word. I've always felt that even when I look back on my past songs, it’s like whatever I was able to do at that time, I did it. I'm proud of them because I did something that I could only do at that time. That was the whole point of being real. So, the reason I did the re-recordings was more of a “Let's try.” Wouldn't it be a nice thing to try to do? Like, a fun thing to try to do. And rather than just making a playlist of songs, let's try these things. Then we said, “Oh, let's do like 3 of them.” [‘Addicted to You’, ｢光｣ (Hikari), ‘traveling’] Because I didn't have a strong preference of like, “Oh, I want to revisit this song or that song.” We chose them – with my team that I've been working with from the first album – and honestly, I didn't really think it would make a big difference what songs I had chosen to do. I tried them, and some were more difficult than others.

But I'm really glad that I did them because it gave me a chance to really look back. From the time of my debut in Japan, being 15 and then becoming really famous right away. Everything in my life completely changed. I was suddenly dealing with a lot of things I had never expected. Difficult things to deal with – very strange things, in my opinion. Like, being famous is ridiculous. I don't think anyone should have to really deal with it – at any age, maybe, but when you're that young also. So, from that point until I took a break, when I was like, 27? So, for those ten or something plus years, I don't really remember a lot about my own life. Or, I just have these songs. I barely have any photos of myself, aside from stuff that were taken for work or music videos. And my music. That's kind of all I have. They're like artifacts from that time.

I really don't remember much. Maybe I just felt kind of lost, or there's a big disconnect – like, this chunk of my life. I look back at my videos and I'm like, “Yeah, it is me.” But it also doesn't really feel like me. So, in going back to these songs, I felt like an archaeologist, digging up these artifacts and trying to connect and look at the evidence that's been left. And meet – like, find me – during that time. That was definitely a good thing to do.

But, say like, with ‘Addicted to You,’ I honestly don't know if it was the best song to try to redo. I mean it sounds great, but it was really difficult to sing it because I just don't have those emotions, those types of feelings anymore – I don't think in that specific way. It's about a co-dependent, a bit of an unhealthy attachment. In a way, it made me understand the ways I've grown or changed, or things I've learned in this time. I felt like I met my 16- or 17-year-old self. So, that was great.

I don't think I would ever attempt to do any re-recordings again unless there was some kind of necessity to do it. But if I were to pick a different song on the album at this point, with what I learned by working on these three, I would say maybe I should have gone for a song like ‘Letters.’ I feel a bit more connected to that song. Part of me is, like, “I should have looked at this or approached this a bit differently, maybe.” But we weren't even planning to include ‘Letters’ initially. That came much later on when I thought, “Can we put this instead of this other song?” Maybe that's something to think about in the future, or when I do live shows.

Doing the mixes again [though] was purely magical. It was incredible. In a way, I felt connecting with my previous songs way more by working on the mixes. So, it's a blend of things.

I wonder, does putting together an album like SCIENCE FICTION feel like an exercise in writing an autobiography? Or let me put this another way: is this album essentially like traveling through time? Did it ever feel like you were reacquainting yourself not just with past events or “characters” in your life, but also with past versions of yourself?

Yes, I think so. When I explained it to the artist who did the artwork and the design for the album, YOSHIROTTEN, I told them my creative process is something I usually compare to this hourglass figure: a wormhole. It just transports you.

The whole process of making something takes you from one place to another place. By the time I finish writing a song, something about me has changed from before I began writing the song. I think when you [make] a song that kind of takes you away to a different place, maybe that's what the listener is also experiencing. Just in, like, four minutes, rather than maybe the four months I spent on a song. I think it's quite magical that you also get that same feeling when you listen to a song that you listened to – or wrote – many years ago. Immediately, a part of you from that time pops up. It's like a portal opens to that time.

I definitely felt that I hadn't really, properly listened to my older songs. It was pretty impactful just for myself to listen to them in this way. I was surprised at how much I have just been me. So, there are things like, I've grown, or I've learned things, or I've changed in certain ways, but the essential parts of who I am had really not changed. Like when I listen to ‘Automatic,’ I was just shocked at how it was just me – and I’m still me.

So, I’m proud of the fact that I have been very honest throughout all these years. I think that’s what’s the most important for me as a writer or singer, as an artist: that I am not hiding anything from myself. It’s a revelation, and it’s not like, “Oh, I want to reveal this to everyone in the world.” The motivation comes from the need to reveal something to myself, and then, I can just share it with people when it’s done.

Please tell me more about the new song, ‘Electricity’ and how it came to be part of SCIENCE FICTION.

I really love this song. It was really fun to make. I mean, it wasn't easy, but I began writing it about a year ago after having a really wonderful time at Paris Fashion Week. I had a lot of fun. Some of my friends from Tokyo that I hadn't really been out with before – like clubbing and stuff – we went out a lot and had fun. I met new people and there were new experiences. I just wanted to capture this energy of people's connections.

I love the hook. It's so fun to sing. It just gives me a lot of physical joy – writing the song, also just singing it, and listening to it. It gives me this physical reaction. And working on it with Sam Shepherd, Floating Points, was incredible. And we had a lot of fun recording it, too. I hadn't had live musicians participating on my songs for a bit. For a moment, I'd been working mostly on programmed sounds. When I was working on the song with Floating Points, we were saying, “Oh, it'd be so cool if we had some live hi-hats and percussion,” and then there's this artist that Sam really looks up to and is friends with: Kuniyuki Takahashi 高橋邦之. He's a Japanese artist, producer, and writer. He says he's not a percussionist, but he’s one of the best percussion players I've ever heard. He lives in Hokkaido.

It had turned out he was going to be in Tokyo for a New Year's Eve event. And Floating Points was going to be in Tokyo as well. They were both landing in Tokyo on New Year's Eve. When I asked if they'd like to do it, I just said, “Oh, it'd be so cool if we could just record then.” So, most of the live stuff was recorded on New Year's Eve. That was really fun. And there was an incredible [musician who] played saxophone and flute. His name is MELRAW [a.k.a. Kohei Ando 安藤康平]. That was incredible, too. Those were recorded together. For me, it was like a New Year's Eve party. It just felt really, really fun.

Speaking of Floating Points… There’s one particular track on the album that I want to talk about: 'Somewhere Near Marseilles -マルセイユ辺り-'. I have to say that every 12-minute listen is just so rewarding and epic in every sense of the word – it’s one of my all-time favourites now.

Oh, thank you.

How were you able to even begin whittling the song down to a shorter version? Did you have to go back to the drawing board with Floating Points?

Right after we finished the original song, he had said, “If you need me to do a radio edit – like, more like a single, like a short version, just let me know.” And then I never got around to properly asking him. For the SCIENCE FICTION album, I didn't think it would be appropriate to include a 12-minute song like ‘Somewhere Near Marseilles’ in the main part of this album, but I love that song so much. And I think it's an important song for me and my path of looking back on the things I've done. So, I thought this would be a great chance to be able to include that in a radio edit length.

I left it to him. He said he had ideas of how to make it shorter. He's just amazing at taking everything into account, and he's a genius. There were a couple of things at the end that I said – more to do with the vocals – where I made a couple of requests. Then he tried to incorporate that into the format, and it really worked. I think it's really great.

Originally, when we were working on the track, it kind of ended up being 12 minutes (or maybe it was a bit shorter.) It was just really long, and at the end of one day of work, I said, “Yeah, but this is the last song. It should be 12 minutes. This is amazing.” He was like, “Yeah, okay. Yeah, cool.” But he thought I was joking. He didn't think I would seriously do a 12-minute song. So, the next day, when we got together to work, he had worked on it, shortened it, and added things to the track: what he thought were more pop elements to it. We were talking about doing something electronic, experimental, and pop, but like in a Björk’s Post album sort of way. So, he had tried things to make it more in that direction, or make it just catchier, I suppose. And I just said, “No, it's okay, we don't need to do things like that. I just loved it the way it was. And I seriously think it should be 12 minutes. It felt good. Like, that was perfect.” And he said, “Are you serious? Are you sure?” – maybe? So, I said, “Yes, I'm like dead serious.” We brought it back to the way it was, and that's how the original song came to be. But I really liked the short version too. It's short and sweet, but it makes me want to hear the original version again.

Recently, there have been hit songs from a couple of years ago getting a second wind through films and TV shows. For example, there was Kate Bush’s ‘Running Up That Hill’ on Stranger Things and then Sophie Ellis-Bextor’s ‘Murder on the Dancefloor’ on Saltburn. Given that you kind of have a similar experience with ‘First Love’ (although I’d argue that they’re all timeless), I wanted to know your thoughts on this.

I don't find it surprising at all, because I myself don't really listen to music with the lens of “Are they new or are they not new?” It's the same with books or films. It doesn't make any difference. I've never looked at it from that angle of when they were made or whether they're new. It doesn't make any difference to me.

I think when you hear a song for the first time, that's a new song for you. Like when someone hears a Mozart song for the first time, it's a new song to that person. What difference does it make whether it was released now or like a hundred years ago? So, to me, it just makes complete sense that a song that is not “new” – a song that wasn't made in the last few months – a song that was made at any point in human history could be a hit today.

But I guess people have a fascination with things that they think are new. But if you think about it, that new song is going to be old to those people in like half a year, so I don't know… I think it's great that people are paying attention to this phenomenon of what they think are old songs being, well, reintroduced.

There's a book I'm reading. I just got this at a really cool bookstore in London. It's called On Creating Things Aesthetic by Leonard Koren. He talks about the creative process, and when he talks about creating, he says only gods make something out of nothing. And humans – when you create something, you are taking things that have existed and processing them in a different way – deconstructing and reconstructing. Or, you're bringing things that that have existed but have been sort of forgotten about. You're bringing those things back to people's attention. So, to me, the idea of older songs being reintroduced to people who haven't heard of them before, I think that sums up the history of people being creative.

Have there been any songs of yours in particular whose impact on listeners and fans surprised you the most?

Once I put something out there, I don't really have any expectations. I haven't really been surprised. In terms of reactions, you could say there's a human reaction and then there's things like data – like how much, how many copies sold or downloaded. But that's just data. If you're an athlete, maybe that's important. It's an important way of marking your career because those are goals you're actually working hard to achieve. But for an artist, that side of the reaction doesn't really mean much, so I've always been kind of cool and dry about like how my work is received, in a way. But really, it’s the individual reaction, when I see it in people who share their experiences and feelings with me. That means, with each person's story, I can feel surprised or amazed.

But in a collective way, with the collective listeners, the reaction that has touched me the most was when I [came back] after my long break. The first two songs I released [｢花束を君に｣ (Hanataba wo Kimi ni) and ｢真夏の通り雨｣ (Manatsu no Tooriame)] really meant a lot to me. They were the first two songs I wrote after my mother passed away. Just the whole reintroducing of myself, putting myself out there again, releasing songs after a long time, and not writing songs for many years. Songs are always personal, but these two were on a different level of personal to me, and I guess I felt quite vulnerable. I didn't know how people would receive them, or that the secret was out. When that was received with so much warmth, empathy, and kindness, it really, really moved me.

Some of your biggest fans have become artists in their own right. As her fan, I recall Rina Sawayama, and surely, dozens more. I wanted to know your thoughts on this – what it feels like to see newer generations of artists who have considered your music an inspiration for them.

I’m just grateful. I think it's so amazing, and I really, really feel humbled by it. I think, “Oh, me?” Like, wow. I'm just one of many people that have touched or have influenced those artists, so I’m just humbled that I'm one of them.

We’ve both established that a good share of your fans belongs to the LGBTQ+ community. I guess, certain things do strike a chord among us. Several anthems come to mind like Robyn’s ‘Dancing on My Own’ with its particular take on loneliness – among countless others, of course. In your case, as you’ve once said since coming out as nonbinary: the feeling of being an outsider. So, I wanted to ask, what role do you think your queerness plays in the way you make music? Has it ever reframed the way you look at your own past work?

I wouldn't say it has changed anything. Gender identity is, for me, like one part, one element in what makes up someone's identity. For me, there was a lot of other elements in how my identity was formed that made me feel a little bit different from everyone around me. And that could be just being viewed as a foreigner – like national identity and things like that. Coming from a multicultural background, or whether I was in Japan or New York, being in a place where I was always seen as a bit of a foreigner – or a complete foreigner. Or, having a really famous parent who was also mentally ill, that was a big secret I had to keep for a long time. I guess all those things create [that sense]. Like, people just literally used to say [things] like, “Oh, like, you're like an alien.”

I just think about this feeling of feeling different, not feeling quite right, or feeling like you have to hide something and being scared. Because you're scared of the parts of yourself that you don't fully understand. All those things are feelings that we all have. It doesn't matter if you're queer or not. But I think when you are a minority in some way, and especially with something like, you're queer, that really heightens that experience. And it's a big secret to hold on to if you don't feel comfortable or safe to share that. I think it's one of many points of connection.

But also, for me, with the whole coming out, what I found really interesting was, it made a big difference for me, but in a way, I've been singing about things like that the whole time. If you look back on my [catalogue], I didn't even think I was queer. I didn't even know. I didn't know there was a word like nonbinary, you know. So, to me, nothing has really changed. Even in interviews, I was saying how attracted I felt to different kinds of people. Or, there are lines like [in ‘Blue’], “I was born a girl [女の子に生まれた],” but this colour, blue, is symbolic of, I guess, boys' colours in modern times, “but this is the colour that suits me best [私の一番似合うのはこの色]” I wasn't hiding it, and I was expressing it a lot actually in the things I write about. So, I guess that's where people caught on to. I guess, if you related to that, you knew.

I ponder about the role of our queer heroes in music – not just as the creators of our anthems. You’ve mentioned in previous interviews how important visibility is. As people say, violence thrives in silence. Is there this sense of responsibility? What do you feel about this?

Yeah, that was the main reason I thought I should say something. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have come out, there was really not much of a point for me because it wasn't really going to change anything for me, personally. So, I do feel that.

I feel lucky when I realise that looking back, like as a child, there were all these, like, Japanese comic books and things that actually dealt with gender identity – in a playful way or even in some profound ways – like pretty serious ways. I guess that's quite progressive. Japan is such an interesting country, like it can feel so conservative that it feels so difficult to make anything change, but in some ways it's really open and flexible.

What has driven you all these years to move forward and make music?

I guess it's because I have needed to. Yeah, I've needed to make music.

I really needed the 5-year break to really become aware of that and to really understand it because I've been writing music since I was so young. And I thought it was the normal thing to do. I grew up watching my parents making music constantly. Especially the passion that my mother had for making music was really intense, and it came above most other things in life. It was like one of the most important things for her – whether she had to sell the car to make music, to rent a studio – that's what I grew up with.

So, it almost seemed like making music was as important as just living. It was like a part of living and such an essential part of living and being. And then I began writing my own songs when I was like 11 or 12, and I've been constantly making music – until I took a break when I was 27. I was fine. I thought I was fine not writing music during those 5 years. I didn't even really sing. I stepped away from music completely. It was like a suspended time in my life. I was just having fun and not really doing much for a few years. And then, when my mother passed away and I became a mother myself, it was like the floodgates opened. I knew the only way for me to keep living with those things or to keep living with myself – my natural answer, my response – was to write songs and make music. That made me realise how important that was for me or how much of a necessity it was for me.

My peers and I practically grew up with your music, and your songs for Kingdom Hearts and Evangelion formed and soundtracked our core memories. Across the years, how do you think you’ve grown with your fans? How does it feel knowing they’ve embraced all your songs and stories into their own lives?

I think it's amazing. I don't want to say it's hard to believe, but I just feel really, really humbled by it. I think it's incredible that even for me to hear one person saying things like that to me, when someone meets me, and they get emotional and share things they were going through at the time. Like when they listen to some of their favourite songs of mine, or how it's meant to them over the years, it makes me want to cry as well, and I have to try to stay a bit cool and calm. To think that there's more than one person who would feel that way is really incredible.

I guess it’s very… How do I say it? Affirming? Not in the way of, like, “Aha! I made these songs,” or like, “I'm proud of myself” – not like that. Because for me, painting, art, music, literature – those things meant so much to me as a child, or my whole life. For as long as I've been living, those things have been such a big part of my life. They were like my safe space, when I felt there were things that I needed but I didn't have access to other things. Feeling like someone else has experienced these things, or feelings that I was feeling, that I couldn't share with even myself, or maybe people who were near me at the time. That has meant so much to me. To think, things I put out into the world have maybe served that purpose for other people is just really incredible.

Minimal edits to this interview have been made for clarity.

SCIENCE FICTION is available now. Listen here:

Disc 1

1. Addicted to You (Re-Recording)
2. First Love (2022 Mix)
3. 花束を君に (Hanataba wo Kimi ni)
4. One Last Kiss
5. SAKURA ドロップス (SAKURA Drops) (2024 Mix)
6. あなた (Anata)
7. Can You Keep a Secret? (2024 Mix)
8. 道 (Michi)
9. Prisoner of Love (2024 Mix)
10. 光 (Hikari) (Re-Recording)
11. Flavor of Life - Ballad Version - (2024 Mix)
12. Goodbye Happiness (2024 Mix)

Disc 2

1. traveling (Re-Recording)
2. Beautiful World (2024 Mix)
3. Automatic (2024 Mix)
4. 君に夢中 (Kimi ni Muchuu)
5. 何色でもない花 (Naniirodemonai Hana)
6. 初恋 (Hatsukoi)
7. Time
8. Letters (2024 Mix)
9. BADモード (BAD Mode)
10. COLORS (2024 Mix)
11. 二時間だけのバカンス (Nijikan Dake no Vacance) featuring Sheena Ringo 椎名林檎
12. Gold 〜また逢う日まで〜 (Mata Au Hi Made)
13. Electricity
14. Somewhere Near Marseilles - マルセイユ辺り - (Maruseiyu Atari) (Sci-Fi Edit) [Bonus Track]

The SCIENCE FICTION Tour 2024 is set to begin in July. Below is the schedule with stops around Japan and Taipei, Taiwan.